Eyal!

Your question is kind of complex and involve a long answer, it might take me a while.

Did Stalin kill million? Stalin himself defiantly never killed millions, there is no such thing as one man controlling a whole country. Stalin represented an ideology or as a Maoist would say a class outlook. I think that there are books that would argue that Stalin through his action did not kill millions (I gave a whole list of books in the start of this thread). Again this article I think is very important, http://www.etext.org/Politics/Staljin/Staljin/articl...
These books however are not promoted because they represent an ideology and give hope to the oppressed.
The life rate after Stalin death has improved dramatically. http://www.etext.org/Politics/MIM/faq/lifeexpectussr... Again, the problem with biographies about Stalin is that they ignore the condition before the October revolution or what led to these revolutions in the first place. They also ignore the necessity and difficulties that the Russian communist party faced.
To follow Lysenko was a mistake by the communist party. The communist party facing mass starvation and bad economy (inherited to them from the Tsar) was too hopeful that Lysenko as being a communist would provide a better understanding of agriculture. This also came from some kind of understanding that if someone is a communist he would have a better understanding of reality. This was proven to be falls. Science is objective.

The idea of the dictatorship of the proletarian started with Marx. Lenin develop the idea of the communist party, an organize body that can survive the police state of the tsar. Lenin in “What is to be done” have argued unlike Marx that the understanding of how to achieve liberation would not just arrive spontaneously out of the masses themselves. This ideology need to be brought to them by intellectuals. Not because the masses are stupid but because being a proletarian constitute being a slave worker, working from the start of the day to the end of it without the ability to be educated. Does this mean that the masses cant know what’s good for them? No. the masses can grapple with what’s good and needed but like in any science, there are differences between students and professors.

The dictatorship is a tool to brake down divisions in society and fight old ideas that are part of capitalism and are part of the new society as well.

The revolution in 1917 happen with the support of millions of people who lost their hope in the new government who failed to provide them with some basic needs. “Ten Days that shock the world” is a good book about this subject.

Ill answer the rest of question tomorrow, but, yeh, I would like to hear about your personal experience with people in Israel (not to much details we don’t knew who else is reading this……). Just a last point when we Maoists analyze society we analyses it by classes, the people who are most oppress are the proletarian, and from what I read the proletarian in Palestine is fighting for their rights. We also make the distinction between the masses (proletarian), the people (classes that unite with the proletarian), and the enemy.

The article that we are talking about is not just the latest revelation from the K.G.B archives, is also a document that is trying to find some evident to numbers and stories of historians about Stalin:
“Mainstream published estimates of the total numbers of “victims of repression” in the late 1930s have ranged from Dmitrii Volkogonov's 3.5 million to Ol'ga Shatunovskaia's nearly 20 million. (See Table 1.) The bases for these assessments are unclear in most cases and seem to have come from guesses, rumors, or extrapolations from isolated local observations. As the table shows, the documentable numbers of victims are much smaller.” (my emphasis)
It is also gives a different picture of who the terror was directed at:
“The frequent assertion that most of the camp prisoners were “political” also seems not to be true. On the other hand, the new evidence can support the View, reached previously by statistical study and evidence of other types, that the terror was aimed at the Soviet elite.”
The numbers that you mention are out of population of 100 millions. Of these some were really counter revolutionary. The British intelligent in the 20s reported to mange to infiltrated the Russian secret service. Some were rich Kulaks who exploited and rusley ruled the masses, and some for committing atrocities under the brutal tsar regime. Other than that, yes out of population of 100 millions people some people were unjustly killed. I think that something that we all communist need to learn from to do better next time. One of the error of Stalin were that he thought that once the proletarian take power, contradiction end between the people and that the only contradiction are between the people and the enemy. Mao have fought this by unleashing the Cultural Revolution in which millions of people debated issues and exposed the old elite instead of just killing them. We need to remember that the Russian revolution was the first socialist experience and that we should compare the mistake with the enormous gains. Russia from a third world country has become a stable state where the life expectancy has doubled. People who criticize Stalin should come with a batter examples of a third world country overcoming their misery and poverty, or any country today who is actually is trying to away with poverty and oppression.
I think that defiantly when it comes to communism historians can’t really get their numbers or stories right (they seem to be puzzled by the idea that leaders would acshully gives their lives to the masses). For example in writing about the famine of the 30s and the coltevisetion process historians “forget” to mention that the soviet peasants have been trying to cultevise or to organize since the 1600’S, when, Timofiyevich Razin, led a peasants' revolt and killed the kulaks, which were then known as barons, counts, and princes. The stories about count Dracula are based on real stories, the kulaks were brutal, and the peasants with the support of the Russian government have managed to take back and stop an oppressive and capitalist system in which a few live on the beck of hundreds. They also “forget” to mention that famine is pretty comen for that time in Russia. We need to remember that after a revolution not everyone becomes equal in society and old division between rich and poor are still their.
Croshchove represent for us Maoist the turning point in Russia from communism to capitalism and the failure of Stalin to understand that new elites even in a communist society start to evolve and take hold of the party itself. And by the way, that was not the only thing that he said. It took capitalism to arrive out of feudalism hundreds of years, for a movement that only been around 150 years I think we are doing pretty good.
Israel could have never become communist; from the starting point of Israel Zionist leaders were bagging imperialist powers to give permission to Jews to settle in Palestine. Haim visman for example felt that the yishuv should bolster the British Empire and guard its strategic interests in the region. Later, the leaders of Israel perceived the Jewish state as a strategic asset to the United States in the Middle East. Israel from its birth was a military base for empire. For example In 1955 Israel aided the British and French in stopping Nasser from nationalizing the Sues Cannel. And Israel until today depended on imperialism Israel economy would not survive one day without the billions of dollars from America.
The fact that other countries are doing something wrong doesn’t make it o.k. and from looking at the history of your country the conflict have started because of Israel oppressing the Palestinian not because of some kind of abstract conflict.
I do not hate Jews, I do however feel that there is culture of racism in Israel that give rise and enforces the oppression and killing of the Palestinian (and this is not a support for suicide bombing). I think that Zionists are degrading the notion of anti Semitism by calling everyone who disagree with them anti Semite while ignoring the real anti Semite, the religious Christian in America who believe that the Jews killed Christ and that the Jews should concur the whole middle east so they can have a war against the Christians, only because this Christian donate millions of dollars to Israel.
I knew that this only the tip of the ice and my remark has probably only intrigued more question in you. I’ll have some more time in a couple of months but in the meantime let me recommend a book to you: “on the border” and “toward an open tomb” by Michael Warschaski which would give a better picture of Israeli history. And Mao essay about the relations between theory and practice, and the epistemological way of arriving at the truth. http://www.etext.org/Politics/MIM/wim/oncorrect.html

Eyal Shalom!

I have to apology’s but I’m having some difficulties in my personalize life that would not give me the opportunity too give your question the attention that they need. Ill search for you on this web site when I have some more time, and we can keep the discussion where we stooped.

You are right we should not just accept the latest discovery about Stalin; can we at least agree that there is some controversy on the subject of Stalin?

Some of the people who were executed really deserved it. Some were people who exploited the masses. And some, like you said were innocent. A revolution is a bloody insurrection in which one class takes power from another class. I did not choose it to be this way, the state through its arm forces oppresses the masses weather fight or not. All the military that your country has is not to protect your country it’s to oppress and put down the masses. And the police and the military are here fundamentally to protect privet property. Or as Mao said: “political power comes from the barrel of a gun” on some level capitalist countries have no choice but to oppress the masses. Capitalism creates its own grave diggers, since the competition between the capitalist goes down to who saves the most on labor and to maintain a cheep labor the capitalist have to have an army. Because any oppression breeds resistance, there is no such thing as something without its contradiction. The oppression that your country puts the Palestinian through in order to make them the cheep labor does produce resistance, and here again is where the military steps in. after a revolution people are not automatic become communists, a lot of people who did not oppose you at first start opposing you when they start to lose the privilege that they were used too. In your country for example, do you think that the settlers who kill Palestinian take there land and believe that the whole state of Israel belongs to the Jewish “nation” would just accept a new society based on equality and justice? Do you think they would not be agree at being ask to actually accept the law and not to shot Palestinian farmers ?Or what about Muslim fundamentalist do you think they would just accept that their wife and daughters are now have the same rights as them? A communist revolution is not just a transformation of economic relations it’s a transformation of relations between people, and especially a transformation of the mind. While remembering that some people were killed unjustly, I also don’t forget the gains and achievements. From a third world country where thousands of people died from starvation and preventable dieses Russia became a stable country who mange to win the cold war. From a feudalist country Russia became country who technology competed with the U.S. Show me another third world country at the time or our time that actually is trying to face and better horondes condition of starvation and inequality?
Nothing would change the fact that capitalism is an economic system that is running exploitation. The question is what do you do? Do you accept the past with its mistake and try to do something better? Or do you give up all together? Capitalist societies not only did not ever try to better the condition of their masses not but killed and created more misery and killings.

Yes, china today is a capitalist society. And I think that you really investigate the gains that were made in the socialist revolutions you would not think that the communist revolutions have failed. Common you can say it; you think it’s an utopia. I really don’t understand your definition for “working”. Hundred of kids dieing every day from starvation as direct consequence of policies of the World Bank. Half of humanity living from two dollars a day. A war that is waged for oil, and a pollution crisis that might kill us all. Are all of these your definition for working? I think that you are talking from your place in society, to 80% of the population of the world the choice is ether to die on their feet or on their knees.

I don’t think that you understand the definition for “Marxism”, to say that nationality is composed by religion or oppression is not Marxist. Definitely not arguing that the Palestinian land is a common property and that they should become a second class citizen. There is a lot of people in Egypt that would describe their country as democratic, objectively its not. There is a lot of countries and people today that call themselves communist, so what? Socialism is not excluding one group of people and taking their lands while giving your own group privilege rights. Stalin did a mistake in recognizing Israel. And yes Russia and China today are imperialists. Israel was chosen to be supplied with weapon and guns however, not because of the American belief in democracy but because of the need to control an area rich with oil. Israel is the stick when the carrot is not enough to convince the corrupt government of the Arab world to give up their resources.

Some would argue that your last comment is a support to Social Darwinism, which is weird since your country has official holydays to commemorate the holocaust. Your understanding of the Palestinian Israeli conflict is wrong, which brings us again to the question of who writes history. The situation for the Palestinian was worsen during the 90s, and I would also suggest to you to actually read the “peace offering” that was offer by Barak and Clinton and was suppose to “end all conflict” between the Israelis and the Palestinian. You can find this information in the books that I recommended to you. your understanding of the motive of Palestinian is also problematic, are you some kind of a social physiologist that you knew that all the Palestinian want is to kill Jews? Also your economic and democratic freedoms come on the back of this Palestinians and only because of their economic and personalize oppression.

I knew that you probably have more question now than before and again my apologies for not being able to provide you them at this time.

Keep an open mind, and take care.

p.s. this is a web site about a communist revolution that is happening right now.

http://www.lionesto.net/gallery/Nepal1999/nepal1999....

I wish that I could have the privilege of telling you who I am. Your government (and other government as well) has a long history of spying on, arresting, and killing, political activist. I’m allowed to speak on this website only to promote the whole idea of democracy. If I was to become affective, I would be search for by your secret police, this web site would shut down, and you and people who debated me would be investigated. Just to quote one example the Nepalese Maoist party who has the support of millions of the Nepalese, and is much more democratic than the corrupt Nepalese king. Is on the American terrorist list.

Nonetheless, our debate is between ideas. The Maoist epistemological scientific understanding is that you uphold the truth no matter who discover it. As with the example of Linsko, being a communist does not automatically constitute knowing the truth, on the contrary, sometimes like in Russia the scientists who were right about botanic and how to raise wheat were anti communist. The relationship between science and Marxism is as Mao said “Marxism embrace but do not replace”. The truth need to be upheld no matter who says it.

Judaism is not a nationality, it’s a religion. It can be some of your cultural identity, but its does not constitute a nationality. You are an Israeli. And there is no relation between you and a religious Jew in French or America; in the same way that there are no relations between a Muslim in Egypt and Muslim in Indonesia even so both of them prey in the same direction. Or between a woman in Afghanistan and a woman in Iran even so both of them are oppress. Your government while upholding secular laws and allowing freedoms that would be considered by the Jewish religion to be a heresy (like eating ham, or having sex with a women on her period), is using religious definition to nationality and to who can become a citizen of your country. While bringing thousands and thousands of Russians that had only a distant Jewish relative it is denying the same right to Palestinian who have lived here for hundreds of years. In a lot of cases Palestinian who only leave Israel for studies or to get married are not allowed to come back.

Take care,

check your history again
the vast majority of arabs living today in the land of Israel (both in pre 1967 Israel, and the liberated territories) are offsprings to recent immigrants, brought here by the Ottoman empire starting at the latter part of the 19th century, or lured here by the new opportunities brought here by the booming economy (relative to Arab countries) resulting from Jewish activity. in a single decade (1993-2003), some 150,000 arabs immigrated and recieved full citizenship to Israel from neighbouring countries, seeking for a better life.
http://www.pademographics.com/Herzliya%20HEBREW%20Fl... 17
again, this number iuncludes only the legal immigrants, not the countless illegal immigrants.

I think that you are the one that is basing himself on unreal information. When I was talking about political activist I was not only talking only about communists, I was talking about any radical political activists. Your country does have a black list of radical activist that is used to harass them. In the case of the International Solidarity Movement for example, an organization that is dedicated to fight none violently the illegal demolition of Palestinian and to assist the Palestinian people to live somewhat of a normal life. Your country has killed two of their members (one while escorting kids on their way to school) and have broke into their offices to obtain the names of their members. You are also welcome to go and talk to anarchists who are opposing the illegal building of the separating wall on a Palestinian land (not on the green line as was promise) and ask for their experience with the police and the army. And even this harassment does not apply to Palestinians who can be shut, their house can be demolish, or with the destruction of their economy by your country without a job or a way to go to the hospital. As far as I can see there are no communists in your country, there are people who define themselves communists but that does not say a lot. I also might not be living in your country, nor have I ever done.

The political right in your country is needed to maintain the goals of your government. As long as are under control and do not threat the statuesque in Israel they are allowed to keep harass and kill Palestinian. They are sometime get out of hand and contradict the interest of Israel and need to be control. They are definitely not obligated to maintain the law.
http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasite/spages/761280.html

All this relative freedom is provided to the Israelis to keep propagating the mantra that their country is the only democracy in the Middle East. When in essence not only that is not true, but America who provides Israel with weapons and money that without them the state of Israel would not survive one day, is the one who insures that democratic movements in Arab countries are crushed and that their corrupt dictators maintain power.

Why is Judaism so different from other religions? Islam and Christianity are very well a way of life too. You remind me of Muslim and Indos in India that are always trying to convince each other who has the best religion and who have a better social life. Or different sects of Christianity in the U.S. who are a trying to convert people saying that they have the best religion. There are people who would disagree with you about your description of Israelis (or would prefer French or India). And in your country too, there are jukes about the way Israelis behave when they fly aboard (which are based on true stories). Marx was raised a Christian, and I know people again, who study genetics who would disagree with your theory about Jewish characteristic. Furthermore, I also know people who are not Jewish who care about the world and justice in more ways than a lot of Israelis and Jewish people that I mate. I’m very happy for you (seriously, I am) that you can walk around meeting other Jews and immediately fill closeness, that however does not define a nationality.

I would also argue that the bible and the Gemara are very subjective books that can be interepted in different ways, and looking at the hurondes misery that your country is inflicting on the Palestinian and the enforcement of these acts by Judaism, that your religion actually stands for genocide and oppression. It’s not very coincidence that the settler movements is religious based.

Generally speaking there are two schools of thoughts in philosophy, the idealist that based herself on the mind and how our mind or how our interpretation of the world affects it, and there is the materialist, the philosophy that upholds that their objective reality beyond us. The Maoist epistemological process at arriving at the truth is as Mao said “from matter to conciseness and from conciseness to matter again”. First we look or experience with reality, then we formulate ideas based on what we see, and than in the most important process we try to see if they apply to reality. Marxism unlike religions and different political movements is based its theory in corresponding with reality. Nationalism as define scientifically (To quote Stalin) is: “A nation is historically evolved, stable community of language, territory, economic life, and psychological make-up manifested in a community of culture.” The question of a nation is very important when dealing with cultural imperialism, national oppression, and a country compose of a couple of nations.

I feel that you, my friend, is the one that is relying on old dogma and subjective and personalize experience to define a phenomena, and not on a scientific and reality biased experience.

This is going to be my last comment to you; I really don’t have anytime for this now. You can find answer to all your question in the books that I recommended to you, and in leftist Israeli websites.

Until next time, goodbye.

One last thing,
I just found this article. I think that its relates to our conversation. Again, my apologies for not being able to conduct an in depth debate.

http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/vv.html

Take care, and happy holyday to you too.

The current resistance to Russian rule began during the late 18th century (1785-1791) as a result of Russian expansion into territories formerly under the dominion of Turkey and Persia

The Chechens, though, again rose up against Soviet rule during the 1940s, resulting in the genocidal deportation