I expect to hear such ridiculous claims from foreigners, but you supposedly live here. You _really_ think that we are fighting some religion-based war against the Arabs? This is a war that concerns our right to be a people, a nation.

It's good that you have such a plethora of excuses not to listen to people.

Roy,

Some of us can't write in hebrew. We know the language well, but our operating system doesn't.

Of course, we can't force anyone to read in english, but since we don't have a choice in the matter, it would be kind if you will disregard the language of the message.

1. On the Linux account that I use, I cannot use Hebrew. (Now, for instance.)
2. It is very rare that I get access to an NT account, which would allow me to respond in Hebrew.
(1),(2)=> Therefore, I've decided to continously write in English, in order to be consistent.

Now, some people think that there is something wrong with consistency - at least twice, in conversations where I had participated, those I was arguing with did
indeed change their purported position. A rolling stone catches no moss, or so the common idiom says.
In my case, I think that consistency is essential, else nothing productive is accomplished to my view, as my goal is a furthering of understanding between two or more sides, not working towards the end of making myself feel the victor in some kind of battle of words.

That is my position. Now, I can't force you to read what I write, therefore I'm not going to persue this any further. A man's bigotry is his castle. :-)

As I had explained, someone gave me a program and a set of fonts that allows me to read Hebrew, in Netscape. Writing in Hebrew requires another program. At the time, I told that person that I wasn't interested - currently, even if I did want to install it, due to the limited alloted disk-space given to Linux accounts, I couldn't fit it in. I can hardly fit in the c source code for the programs I write for homework, as it is.

I have no experience with virtual keyboards, and although I suppose that there is no real reason that I wouldn't be able to use it, I am always suspicious of Netscape Communicator, and its odd lapses in usefulness.

If it is possible, I ask that the virtual keyboard be real-keyboard-activated - if I have to click letters one by one, I will hardly be able to write anything decent in a manageable time-frame.

What's wrong with my English? I've heard nothing but compliments about it, before entering the Moose, that is.

I think we could argue about the definition on "good english" until the cows come home.

But technically speaking the Citizen's english is fine, its a bit formal for the forum, but Mr. Mann is using a similar style in Hebrew.

It may annoy some people, but style is a highliy subjective matter.

Specifically, you occasionally misspell some basic words. A recent one was 'persue' instead of 'pursue'. I note this because you asked.

I think your English is fine, and welcome you to use it here and elsewhere, and let whoever minds mind.

Hmm... at least I did not replace it with "peruse".. :-)

Well, my conclusions are similar. As a person who constantly spends time with people who speak other languages (Russian and Arabic, specifically), I don't object to foreign languages - I feel bad for not being able to understand almost all of them, but that's another issue. It seems that some people object to my using English for some personal, irrelevant reasons. Had ignorance truely been the issue, had people asked me to use Hebrew because they don't _understand_ English, my response would have been different - I could always try to write Hebrew phonetically. But this isn't the case, so I would rather not embarrass myself.

I have no objection for writing in English, especially that I am well aware of the technical difficulties.

Nevertheless, I'd like to commend you on this particular response, on which you've managed to avoid some of the more obscure vocabulary, limiting yourself to plainspoken English.

Could you mean that the problem people have with my English is the same problem had with my Hebrew, when I was in grade school? Vocabulary that they considered "obscure?" Need I now dumb myself down for the masses? This is the kind of thing that I had hoped going to an Undergraduate school would prevent.

Will you elaborate on the famous civil disobidience in Israeli history?

I never heard of it (which is no wonder, I never studied history in an Israeli school)

Links to more information would be appreciated.

First of all, I apologize for writing in english. I´m in Bolivia at the moment, and hebrew fonts are not very common.

Basically, it is a matter of values. ofcourse that state can choose to associate vital rights with military service, exactly like it does with paying taxes. one simply has to consider the implications - the right to vote is the right to have some (if very limited) control on your life. associating this with military service implies that we are trying to build here a new Sparta, and not a democratic state.

I agree, though I would rather that National Service be added to the list of allowed prerequisites.

Another thing: we should also, by law, disallow carreer military men or women from entering politics for five to ten years after they conclude their service. It will allow them to get acquainted with civilian life - a military-based world-view is not proper for political service.

Well, I think that this is the problem of those opposed, isn't it? If you don't want the right to vote, we can't make you, can we?

And yes, I have heard of the policy in the US - I am not that much of an original thinker.

One thing troubles me, though: When did Colin Powell resign from the military? Is it not less than ten years ago? If so, why was it allowed for him to become a Secretary? Or does the law in the US refer only to elected officials, not appointees?

The arabs never missed a chance to miss a chance.

I would like to ask that you explain your last paragraph, please. I see no problem in the State changing the duties/rights equation, so long that it is balanced. I see it as unbalanced, at the moment, by the way.

But why doesn't the State have the right to demand that its citizens serve it in any manner except for taxes?

In any case, this isn't a matter of demanding that the citizens serve - the service is a prerequisite to voting privileges. No-one is forced to serve; but only if you serve do you get the privilege of voting.

Why is voting a birthright, as you imply? What's wrong with it being a privilege, kept for those who are willing to serve their fellow citizens?

I'm sorry, sir, but you again seem quite arbitrary, to me. Your last paragraph again appears to me quite baseless. Especially since this whole issue is about service to the state, not strictly military service.

If voting is a right of a citizen, then yes, by that definition, citizenship, in my view, should be given only to people who have served the State. Others will have to have a different status, in this case.

In some places voting is an obligation rather then a right. In Australia, for example, voting is compulsory. This applies to municipal, state and federal elections.

You don't understand the situation here at all. Regional peace was a strategic target of the Israeli leadership since before the beginning. If you read some of the writings of our former leaders, such as David Ben-Gurion, you will see it. They write about how we must strike out harshly at any military attempt by our Arab neighbour, so that one day, they will be willing to sit at the negotiation table with us. And lo and behold, it worked! First with the Egyptians, then with the Jordanians. Has it occured to you that it may be our lifting our guards, thinking that all is well with the Palestinians, without actually taking measures to ascertain it, that got us in this sitution?

To conclude: you cannot make peace by yourself. Tango takes two. I'm not sure that the other side wants peace - otherwise, I doubt that we would be in our current position, as Israel has proven more than once that it wants peace.

What makes you think that another country will take you in? Right next door to you, several million Palestinians live in poverty and squalor for over 50 years and no country is rushing to let then in.