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עוד קצת בעניין זה. (לפני כשבוע) טראמפ אמר שאוקראינה יכולה להיות רוסית יום אחד. (לפני כשבוע) טראמפ טען כי תבע מאוקראינה 500 מיליארד דולר במתכות נדירות. והוסיף "They've essentially agreed to do that so at least we don't feel stupid". להשוואה, ההוצאה של הממשל האמריקאי על אוקראינה היא 175 מיליארד דולר, מתוכם 106 מיליארד הועברו לאוקראינה כתמיכה וציוד צבאי, והיתר (ברובו המכריע) לתשלום לייצור ציוד בתוך ארה"ב (לדוגמא ציוד להחלפת מה שנשלח לאוקראינה).
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גודלו של הסיוע לא ברור. דומני שטראמפ דיבר על 350 מיליארד, בעוד Grok3 - הלב נרגש עם כל מקש, בא לשכונה בחור חדש! - טוען שמדובר בקצת פחות, $75 מיליארד כלומר בסביבות 20% מהטענה הטראמפית, אבל גם יודע לספר שאלה רק הנתונים הרשמיים וייתכן שזה יותר. רק בסוף שמתי לב שהוא מדבר על אמצע 23, משום מה (הבנתי שהתחילו את הפיתוח שלו רק לפני כשנה) ויש עוד סכום סיוע עולמי גדול יחסית של יותר ממאה מיליארד דולר שהיה בדיונים באותו זמן, אבל לא ברור איזה חלק ממנו מוטל על ארה"ב. גרוקי גם מספר ש"Fact-checking organizations, such as PolitiFact and FactCheck.org, have repeatedly debunked claims of U.S. aid to Ukraine reaching hundreds of billions beyond the documented amounts." ואני, נאיבי שכמותי, נוטה להאמין לו. _____________ למאותגרי X המעוניינים לנסות את הבחור, קודם כל נחמד להכיר את האתר https://lmarena.ai/ באופן כללי, וכדי לדבר דווקא עם הגורק יש ללחוץ על הלשונית "cirect chat" בראש העמוד ולבחור אותו מרשימת האפשרויות (שכוללת את כל הנבחרת שעומדת לרשותנו בחינם). לו הייתי פחות עצל הייתי עורך את הניסוי הבא: * חושב על שאילתא מעניינת עם תשובות אפשריות לא טריוויאליות. * מפנה את הפרומפט לכל אחת מהתוכנות בנפרד. * שולח את כל התשובות שקיבלתי לכל אחת מהתוכנות ומבקש מהן לאחד את כולן למשהו קוהרנטי שנראה הכי טוב בהתחשב בקלט החדש. * חוזר על התהליך עד שמתקבל קונצנסוס (אם זה יקרה). כשיהיו סוכנים (agents) שיוכלו לעשות את כל האמור למעלה בעצמם אולי אנסה משהו כזה ביום מן הימים (אם כי אחרים בטח יקדימו אותי ויפטרו אותי אפילו מהמאמץ הקטן הזה). שאלתי את גרוק מה הוא חושב על זה, ולדעתו הסיכוי להתכנסות אינו גדול. לא שאלתי את האחרות מהסיבה המובנת. |
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לקחתי את המספרים מהמאמר הזה: נראה די אמין. |
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אכן נראה אמין וגם גרוקי מסכים שזה מוסד מכובד עם שם טוב. איך קורה שהם ואתה רחוקים מאד בהערכה שלכם, שאלתי (לא ממש במלים אלה)? "הו, הו" הוא ענה "אני שמח שאתה שואל". בבקשה (במקור עם תווי עריכה נכונים זה נראה הרבה יותר טוב. יש בטח איזו דרך יותר טובה לייצא שיחות): It seems there may be some confusion or a misunderstanding regarding the figures for U.S. aid to Ukraine, as I haven't previously provided a specific amount in this conversation. However, I can clarify the situation and explain why there might be discrepancies in reported figures, including the $175 billion claim from the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) or other sources.
--- ### **Overview of U.S. Aid to Ukraine:** Since Russia's invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, the United States has provided significant aid to Ukraine, including military, economic, and humanitarian assistance. The exact amount of aid reported can vary depending on the source, time frame, and how the aid is categorized (e.g., committed vs. disbursed, direct aid vs. broader support). As of late 2023, official U.S. government figures and independent analyses (e.g., from the Kiel Institute for the World Economy, Congressional Research Service, and others) typically report that the U.S. has **committed** or **authorized** around **$75–$80 billion in total aid to Ukraine** since the start of the conflict. However, the figure of $175 billion cited by CFR or other sources may reflect a broader interpretation or inclusion of additional factors. Let's break this down: --- ### **Why CFR Might Report $175 Billion:** The $175 billion figure likely includes a combination of direct aid to Ukraine and indirect costs or broader support related to the conflict. Here's how this number might be derived: 1. **Direct Aid to Ukraine (Official Figures):** - As of late 2023, the U.S. government has officially committed approximately: - **Military aid:** ~$46–$50 billion (e.g., weapons, training, and equipment through the Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative and Presidential drawdowns). - **Economic and budgetary support:** ~$25–$30 billion (e.g., grants and loans to support Ukraine's government operations, provided through the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) and other channels). - **Humanitarian aid:** ~$3–$5 billion (e.g., food assistance, refugee support, and other humanitarian programs). - These figures total around **$75–$85 billion in direct aid**, according to sources like the U.S. Department of Defense, State Department, and the Kiel Institute's Ukraine Support Tracker. 2. **Indirect Costs and Broader Support (Possible Additions):** - The $175 billion figure may include indirect costs or broader support related to the conflict, such as: - **U.S. military spending related to the conflict:** Increased U.S. defense spending in Europe, including troop deployments, NATO support, and replenishing U.S. weapons stockpiles (e.g., through the European Deterrence Initiative). - **Support for allies and partners:** Aid to NATO allies and other countries impacted by the war (e.g., energy subsidies, refugee support in Europe). - **Future commitments or authorizations:** Some reports may include funds that have been authorized by Congress but not yet disbursed, or multi-year commitments. - **Economic ripple effects:** Broader economic costs, such as contributions to international financial institutions (e.g., IMF, World Bank) for Ukraine-related programs. - These indirect costs can significantly inflate the total figure, depending on how they are categorized. 3. **CFR's Framing:** - CFR may use a broader definition of "aid" that includes both direct assistance to Ukraine and indirect costs borne by the U.S. government as a result of the conflict. - For example, CFR might include: - The cost of replacing U.S. military equipment sent to Ukraine. - Funding for NATO and European allies to offset energy and security costs. - Long-term commitments authorized by Congress, such as the $61 billion supplemental funding package passed in 2023. - If CFR's figure includes these broader costs, it could explain the $175 billion estimate. 4. **Time Frame and Updates:** - The $175 billion figure may also reflect updates or projections that include aid committed through late 2023 or early 2024, depending on when CFR published the claim. - Aid figures are dynamic and can change as new funding is authorized or disbursed. --- ### **Comparison with Official Figures:** - **Official U.S. Government Figures (as of late 2023):** - The U.S. Department of Defense, State Department, and USAID report that direct aid to Ukraine totals around **$75–$85 billion** since February 2022. - This includes military, economic, and humanitarian assistance, as well as support for Ukrainian refugees in the U.S. and Europe. - **Kiel Institute's Ukraine Support Tracker:** - The Kiel Institute, which tracks international aid to Ukraine, reports similar figures, with the U.S. contributing around **$75 billion in direct aid** (as of October 2023). - **CFR's $175 Billion Claim:** - The $175 billion figure likely includes both direct aid and indirect costs, as explained above. It is important to check CFR's methodology and definitions to understand what is included. --- ### **Why Discrepancies Occur:** Discrepancies in reported aid figures can arise due to: 1. **Different Definitions of "Aid":** - Some sources report only direct aid to Ukraine, while others include indirect costs (e.g., U.S. military spending in Europe, support for allies). 2. **Committed vs. Disbursed Aid:** - "Committed" aid refers to funds authorized or pledged, while "disbursed" aid refers to funds actually spent. Some reports focus on commitments, which can be higher than disbursements. 3. **Time Frame:** - Aid figures change over time as new funding is approved. The $175 billion figure may include recent or projected commitments. 4. **Inclusion of Indirect Costs:** - Broader costs, such as U.S. defense spending or support for NATO allies, can inflate the total figure. 5. **Source and Methodology:** - Different organizations (e.g., CFR, Kiel Institute, U.S. government) may use different methodologies for calculating aid, leading to variations. --- ### **How to Verify the $175 Billion Claim:** To assess the accuracy of CFR's $175 billion figure: 1. **Check CFR's Source and Methodology:** - Look for the specific article or report on cfr.org that cites the $175 billion figure. - Check whether CFR explains what is included (e.g., direct aid, indirect costs, future commitments). 2. **Compare with Official U.S. Government Data:** - Refer to updates from the U.S. Department of Defense, State Department, and USAID for official figures on direct aid to Ukraine. - The Congressional Research Service (CRS) also provides detailed reports on U.S. aid to Ukraine. 3. **Consult Independent Trackers:** - The Kiel Institute's Ukraine Support Tracker provides transparent, up-to-date data on international aid to Ukraine. - Other organizations, such as the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), also track aid figures. 4. **Look for Updates:** - Aid figures are dynamic, so check for updates from late 2023 or early 2024 to ensure the most current data. --- ### **Conclusion:** - The $175 billion figure cited by CFR likely includes both direct aid to Ukraine (around $75–$85 billion, based on official figures) and indirect costs or broader support related to the conflict (e.g., U.S. military spending, support for allies, future commitments). - Official U.S. government figures and independent trackers typically report direct aid to Ukraine at around **$75–$85 billion** as of late 2023, which is lower than the $175 billion claim. - The discrepancy is likely due to differences in definitions, methodology, and the inclusion of indirect costs. To understand CFR's figure, it is important to check their specific methodology and what is included. - For the most accurate and up-to-date information on direct aid to Ukraine, refer to official U.S. government sources (e.g., DoD, State Department) or independent trackers like the Kiel Institute. If you have a specific CFR article or report that cites the $175 billion figure, feel free to share the link, and I can help analyze it further! |
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חזרה לעמוד הראשי | המאמר המלא |
מערכת האייל הקורא אינה אחראית לתוכן תגובות שנכתבו בידי קוראים | |
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