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אני לא רואה איך אמונה בקיומו של אלוהים קשורה לערכים. דת בהחלט כוללת בתוכה גם ערכים שקבלתם או אי קבלתם אינה קשורה בהכרך באמונה בישות אלוהית. הדת היהודית כוללת בתוכה ערכים היסטוריה ועוד הרבה דברים אחרים אבל בעיקר היא כוללת פרשנויות אנושיות לחלוטין לסיפורים קדומים יותר שמאיזה שהיא סיבה אסור לחלוק עליהם בתרוץ (העלוב)ש''הולך ופןחת הדור''. |
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אם אין אלוהים, נשמט לחלוטין הבסיס מתחת לדת היהודית. גם אם חלק מערכיה דומים לאלו של אידאולוגיות חילוניות, הרי שהבאר ממנה היא שואבת את הסמכות בה היא משקה את שדות ההלכה יבשה. את יכולה להשוות את חשיבות האלוהים לקיום היהדות לחשיבות הטאבו לקיום בעלות על קרקע או לחשיבות הריבון לקיום מושג האזרחות. |
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Sometimes one has to go abroad and watch other cultures in order to notice the values deeply embedded into our Jewish origin.
Let's see - we believe in a single god, that is unhuman, uncomprehendable, unbeatable, infinite and eternal. We also believe that he (they) is alive, i.e. that by addressing him we can try to change his (their) decisions. That implies we consider no one else to be divine, including paraohs, kings, lords, generals and experts. All are equal in front of his seat, all are humanly narrow minded, arrogant and stupid. No one knows the truth but him, we're all a herd of rednecks, easily pissed off by nothing, never willing to listen to the other, never trying to understand the motives to the behaviour of one another, never intelligent enough to understand the concequences of our own actions, always late, always reacting too slowly and without the right proportions, always reluctant to admit that. This is what Jews try to remind themselves (one to another, to be exact) every second day or so. We're also obliged to listen carefully to the torah and also read from it ourselves. Which implies that we must know how to read and write in Hebrew, keeping strictly the same signs and panctuation as the ones the bible was written in. All this is absolutely non trivial. In Catholic Christianity the holy texts are all in Latin, which is a dead language. Only the priests learn it, only they understand what they read, and there's no new creation of words in Latin except for new terms in Medicine and some other fields of science. In Protestant Christianity the holy books are translated again every generation in order for Protestants to keep following them. However every Protestant has a slightly different text, and they are all based on old Greek translations of the bible. One should strive to behave like the church says Jesus has behaved like, and Jesus was the son of god and not exactly an ordinary layman. So its morals are not human, and it requires you to abandon your own morals and be willing to accept misery in order to bring love to the world. Or something, I never really understood Christianity. Then there's Islam which believes in accepting the fate from Alla with no doubt or argument. And there's greek mythology where fate is determined and there's nothing you can do to change the oraccle's prophecy. There's Indian Budhism where your soul is eternal but your social status in your present life is a reward for your previous lifestyle, nothing you argue about. Correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm very bad at Eastern religions. There's shintu that believes in spirits of the forces of nature, mediated by the spirits of our ancestors, which shall be appeased by material sacrifices. Then there's Humanism that puts the individual in the center of the universe; Reformist Judaism that omits the primitive parts of the Jewish texts such as zionism, urge to build the temple and how it should be done; and Conservative Judaism that attempts to turn Judaism into something every German or American can live with and visit on his free Saturdays to enjoy songs in Hebrew accompanied by an organ. As I said the orthodox and the conservative jews in Stockholm stay in good relations with eachother, which led me to visit the conservative synagogue in Yom Kipur, during the break between Musaf and Mincha. Fortunately they started a while before their orthodox brothers, so I could quietly sit on of their benches and try to see how they read the torah and haftarah. Well, the priest read the torah in a monotone, quiet voice that was hard to follow. The textbooks they gave us had no te'amim, so no one could see whether he reads correctly. The haftarah was read facing the audience, just like a priest giving a sermon. Behind me sat a couple of adult American Jews who didn't stop talking. I gave them a freezing look, just like secular Israelies get in a synagogue when the kid is having bar mitzvah and they don't know where to read in the siddur so they start chatting or making candy artilerry discussions. They gazed back anxiously and stopped talking for about half a minute. Then I walked out for a minute to see if the security men are interrogating my (Christian) Swedish friend already. But there was no sign for her, so I walked back to see the priest keep reading the haftarah quietly and monotonically as if he's reading a Latin text. No one understood him, no one cared, they were mostly day dreaming or chatting. I asked the two fellows on the back 'excuse me, I'm not from this community, is it common here to talk while reading Torah' then one of them shot back like an anxious yankee protecting his baseball addiction: 'well sometimes we do' so I answered 'well, it's your tradition' and asked for the time It was quarter to five, I went out and start striding back slowly to the orthodox synagogue. I landed unsuccessfully on my right foot when I made a conceptual picture of me jumping off an 80cm high bench in front of the Riechstagg, so I'm still walking slowly and painfully. I arrived in time to conclude the political discussion the Israeli immigrants in Stockholm have held outside the hall. We were Swedes, Spharadim, Russians, Marrocans, Iraqis, Israelies, Americans and even one Yemenite all praying together. We sang loud and clear like a herd of scared lambs, it was beautiful. We beat our chests together, whining and embarassedly laughing. The chazann made nigunim and the shamash added his comments in Swedish and English every once in a while to keep us focused. The synagogue was swarming with people crying for forgiveness together while the sun slowly set. Then the shofar... And we're all happy and greeting each other. Then a quick but highly motivated Ma'ariv, slowly finding our way down the stairs to grab a cookey and some juice. Then scattering to the underground and home, so the security men could quickly lock the school and walk home themselves. No valuables to protect in the hidden syangogue, only some old papers and benches. No reason to keep a guard up all night, no reason to call the police or break the bones of some stupid Nazi. Such a beautiful routine. I realize I'm satisfied with my origin and status, it might not be perfect but it's as good as it gets. Isn't it? |
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אני רק טענתי נגד עניין השקילות בין אמונה לאתאיזם. |
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Atheism - Belief that there is no god.
Agnosticism - Denial of the right to choose yourself if you believe that god exists or he (it?) doesn't. Secularism - Belief in God, not accompanied with doing much about it, mostly due to laziness, ignorance, protest against fanats or mental weakness. Exists only in modern Judaism. |
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תודה ליאור, הוצאת לי את המילים מהמקלדת. בדיוק הלכתי להסביר לאמיגלדה על ההבדלים בין אתיאיזם לאגנוסטיות. |
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הלא תפיסת האלוהות בדתות השונות משתנה בטווח כה רחב, עד שאגנוסטיקן צריך לשלול את היכולת לדעת אם אפילו אחת מהאלוהויות הללו קיימת ולכן עליו (או עליה) להכיר את כל הדתות כולן. אגב, מה תגיד אגנוסטיקנית (או איך שלא אומרים את זה בעברית) לגבי דתות שאין בהן אלוהים ככזה? |
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אגנוסטיקן אומר "אני לא יודע" (המשמעות המילולית של המילה "אגנוסט" היא "לא יודע"), ואף טוען שאי-אפשר לדעת - כפי שכתבת, לא ניתן להוכיח שיש אלוהים ולא ניתן להוכיח שאין. כדי לשלול את היכולת לדעת אין הכרח, לדעתי, להכיר את הדתות כולן - הגישה היא סקפטית בעיקרה, משהו כמו "תראו לי שיש, ואז נדבר; עד אז אני ספקן". אני חושבת שדתות החסרות את מושג האל עדיין מייחסות יכולות מטאפיזיות לדברים או ישויות שונות, כך שהאגנוסטיקן יכול עדיין לבוא ולומר "תוכיחו". אני רואה עצמי כאתיאיסטית, אם כי פגשתי פעם בחור שטען שאתיאיזם טהור לא יכול להתקיים, כיוון שהאתיאיסט האמיתי יסבול מפחד מוות שישבש את חייו לחלוטין או יביא אותו לידי שגעון. ולצערי, הוא די צדק. |
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"A-Knowist" אם אני מבין נכון ?
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על פי פילוסופים מסויימים, אמונה היא היכולת לענות בחיוב כשנשאלים אם מחזיקים באותה אמונה. "האם אתה מאמין באלוהים?", "כן". נטיה זה חלק מעצמיותו של האובייקט, מלח נמס במים לא משום שהוא רוצה אלא משום שזה חלק מהגדרתו. כך המאמין בקיום או אי-קיום האלוהים, האמונה היא חלק מהגדרתו, היינו מן מצב מנטלי אמוני. אפשר אולי לנסות לתאר באופן תיאורטי שמושא האמונה יכול להשתנות, דבר המזכיר אולי פעילויות תשובה והתפקרות, או אמונה-באל או אמונה-בלא-אל או לא אמונה-באל. לעומת זאת, אגנוסטיות1 מבוססת על חוסר האפשרות לשלול את מה שאין לנו שום סיבה טובה לאשר, הגדרה האדם הזה לא כוללת את המונח אמונה. על נושא "יש או אין אלוהים, לא זה מה שמענין" כתבתי כאן, כי לא ברור לי אם בכלל ניתן לענות על השאלה הזו - כפי שכתבתי בתגובה לשי2, הרמב"ם עמד על כך שחקירה תמיד תוביל לשרש של סיבת הסיבות. בזה אין שום דרך ידועה לי שיכולה להביא להכרעה. לכן, השאלה המעניינת יותר היא אולי - אם בכלל קיים אל כזה, האם יש לו בכלל אפשרות להתערב בנעשה בעולם, כולל לברוא עולם? תגובה 64451 ______________ 1 אגנוסטיות תגובה 67767 2 יפה שזיהית את הרמזים שזרעתי - מעיל עור, כלב אוכל (בחולם). תגובה 92690 |
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לא. "גנוסיס" ביוונית - ידע. מכאן - agnostic: חסר-ידע, והכוונה היא ספציפית ל"ידע רוחני": המונח נקבע בהקשר דתי כדי לסמן אי-ידיעה הקשורה לרוחניות. |
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רק לפרוטוקול לא השתמשתי במושע אתאיסט או אגנוסטי ובכוונה. באופן אישי אני לא יודעת אם יש או אין אלוהים. אני מאמינה שאם יש כשה הרי שלא נראה לי סביר שהוא דומה לדמותו המצטיירת ביהדות. |
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תיקון: מרבית הנוצרים והמוסלמים בימינו הם חילוניים, במידה כזו או אחרת. |
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yap, but Christianity says lots of bullshit about the nature of the world, so people accepting the modern discoveries of science have a hard time accepting the pope's occasional patches to the Christian dogma.
As for Dutch muslims, they certainly have to make comprimises if they want to get drunk and stoned with you in Amsterdam. To conclude my chain of meetings with the future Arab leadership, I bought wonderful Labanese pitot at the vegetable store just outside the Ubahn on the way home. I felt a bit like a niger buying crack at the local pizzeria, but my addiction to humus does not harm my short memory. How are you, my dear Gilad? Would you like to meet in Prague? I have a place for both of us, just mail me if you catch an easyjet or another last minute deal. |
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בינתיים, בין השערות על התמסטלות והשתכרות באמסטרדאם עם מוסלמים הולנדיים, ובין צפייה במלחמות שוורים בספרד עם אינקוויזיטורים ספרדיים - קוראי האייל בטח היו מתפלאים לשמוע על אורח החיים הזעיר-בורגני והמשעמם שלי. אולי תחבר לי איזו רשימה על פגמי כל מקום ומקום ברחבי הגלובוס, בהתבסס על הניסיון שלך מהקיץ הזה, כך שאוכל לבחור על דרך השלילה את המקום הפחות-עלוב ביותר? ונחזור לנושא. גם היהדות אומרת הרבה שטויות על טבע העולם - זה לא מפריע לה, וגם לא לנצרות הקתולית, לסתור את עצמה כל כמה מאות (או עשרות) שנים כדי להתאים את התיאוריה למציאות. את השאר אני אשמור לדוא"ל. |
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Good morning Gilad,
I'm sad to hear you're stuck with us. I'll do my best to entertain you as long as my exams are not too near. For a start, I invite you and all the Ayal herd to my return party next week. Since the editorial hates our invitations and we certainly don't want another FAZ to come to life now, I will only say it will take place at my big empty house on the eastern coast of Herzliya airport, and is currently scheduled to the night of September 22nd and the whole day afterwards. It might be postponed to the 24-25th, though I have a demonic exam on the 29th so I'm afraid that's all I can afford, but you're all invited. Send me an email for exact details. Anyways, your request is a bit strange to me as I sent you a similar list on Yom Kippur. So for a start I will paste it below, and thank you for preparing me the ball for the spike (heramta li lehanhata, as we say in volleyball). Cheers... **** Pastery - Subject: I Love Denmark **** Yes folks, your Judeo-Nazi mate has fell in love with the Danish crown, and would now use Karine's lovely computer in Stokholm to explain you why Denmark is absolutely the best place in the world (for a lazy Israeli physicist at least). Well, let the bone dry facts speak for themselves: BECAUSE they're not as poor as the Portugeuse, or Catholic like the Spanish, or lunatic like the French, fragile like the Belgians or Greedy like the Swiss. It's not obsolete like Lichtenstein, stagnate like Monaco, pathetic like Luxemburg, expensive like England or exotic like Iceland. They're not as antipathic as the Irish or pale white as the Scottish, nor too as stoned as the Dutch or too drunk like the Deutch. They're not conservative like Austrians (Bavarians) or nationalistic like the Hungarians (Magyars), nor are they impulsive like the Italians, bloodthirsty like the Bosnians, criminal like the Albans or opinionated like the Greek. And because it's not corrupt like Turkey, insignificant like Bulgaria, racist like Ukraine or hopeless like Mongolia. Because they're not demotivated like the Croats, bizarre like the gypsies, stinky like the Georgeans or canibal like the Siberians. Because in Denmark you can't lose your joy of life like in Russia, your job like in Romania, your finger in Armenia or your limbs in Chechnia. Because it's more efficient than Poland, warmer than Finland, closer to civilisation than Australia, more mature than Israel, not primitive like Egypt, fascist like Syria or fragmented like Lebanon. They're not suicidal like the Palestenians, cruel like the Iraqis, violent like the Hashemite bedouines or careless like the Tais. Because it's not artificial like Taiwan, agressive like the USA, redundant like Canada or miserable like Argentina. Because Mexico is too hot, Colmobia is too humid, Aquador is too low in oxygen and good luck studying in Madgascar. Because there's chaos in Bolivia, CIA puppets in Paraguay, drug barons in Aurugway and AIDS in Brazil. Because Tibet is occupied, South Corea is terrified, Yemen is swarming with thieves and Cambodia with land mines. Because the Japanese are workoholics whereas the Cubans wouldn't work, and living in Nepal is exhaustive enough without doing any work. The Algerians still massacre each other and nothing good ever came out of the Baltic republics. In Zimbabowe you'll be lucky if you're fifty, 15 year old soldiers feed the endless war between Ethiopea and Erithrea, no chance for high studies in Sudan. The Carrebean islands are nothing but tax refuges, Tivoli exists merely for the .tv, no one understands Malaysia and give me a break about Micronezia. No one gives a shit if you're exterminated in Rwanda, Starving in North Corea, malnourished in Pakistan or opressed in Indonesia. Law in Afghanistan is a nice touristic souvineer, you'll be killed for a camel in Mali, too many people have vanished in Turkish Cyprus, while on its other end you can only get laid or married. Malta is too small, the Czech beauty is only exposed to the world when they're fucked, Slovakia is waiting for any occupying army to rape the women and send the men to labour duties, Slovenia and Macedonia are no more than excuses for some more poor balkans to chop eachothers' heads off. How bored can you be moving to the Arab Emirates, how naive when expecting liberty in Liberia, better wait for Iran to be fully democratic. Norway is too oily, even if it's more cultural than Kuwait or Baharain. Only move to Sweden if you withstand coffee as a national drink and bananas as all the fresh tropical fruit you can bring over. Oman is no longer a fascinating gate to the Indian ocean, now that it's also all about importing cars and models for oil. Consider moving to Nigeria if you're into diamond mining, head hunting & free AIDS. You can always apply for a fascinating dynamic and challenging position in Senegal, Uganda, Somalia or Kongo as an arms seller or a hitman or a whore. Job opprutinities in Antarctica without a diploma aren't promising, if you want to clean fish in Alaska you better bring a nanny with you, there are not enough qualified secondary schoold in Lapland (unless you send your kids to the Niels Holgersonn Goose Summer School high over Yurop). There's a defficient ozone layer above Chille, horrible radioactive contamination in Kazachstann, green algae all over Crete, sharks around Tasmania and French nuclear tests on every decent spot in the Pacific. It will take New Zealand another century to regain its pictorial spots documented in 'Lord of the Rings', by then the Tamills may finally take over Sri Lanka. Leave Papua for the Orang-Otans, Galapagus to the turtles and Maiorca to the fucking tourists. You don't want to live in Ibiza, Hawaii eventually implies melanoma, and the Romans knew very well why their internal rivals shall be exiled to all these rocky islands in the meditarrenean. Madiera is nothing a brand for wine. The Americans really don't want us to like Lybia, Tunisia is just the graveyard of Cartagho, can't get a diploma on the moon. AND THEN DENMARK looks as if someone has copied the southwestern part of northern Israel, then pasted it with a terrain editor over and over again to be saved us 'Den.mark'. Commercial Xmas trees plantations, free range pig farms, evergreen forests and a blue blue baltic sea have then been smeared in to cover up the mess. Just before putting it online this annonymous editor has picked a red flag with two white stripes to signify a hazy vision of some old drunk viking and a voila - the best country in the world is now open for business. You can raise your kids in modern, tolerant, socialist country while having very good universities & cheap islands for sale. You can always go hiking in Norway's fiords or raid the markets of Koln & London, just like in the good old Viking days. In fact, Denmark looks like a place for veteran Nordic warriors who just gave up fighting and got satisfied with their own beautiful piece of land. Just like England would have looked like hadn't it been occupied by stupid French knights for the past 936 years. But worry not lads, a millenium is not much in the history of nations. Look at us - we're still reading every week the same old five scrolls we wrote down about 2700 years ago, and we're still slowly recovering from the bloody results of the crusades on the bright Arab middle east of the 11th century. Perhaps the middle east will also look like Scandinavia, once the oil is over or efficient fuel cells devised, or the Husseini family crashing their sports' car against the Edom mountains, giving the Palestenians the chance to establish their long deserved country, and bringing an end to all this senseless bloodshed. As for myself, I'll probably move to Denmark once I finish my eternal military service and my kids are mature enough to leave their kindergarten friends and write emails. That will be around 2009, taking another year or two to make enough money to buy a decent farmland or a private island in under the Danish crown (part of the EU by then). How will I make all this money? Well in a decent country there shouldn't be a problem for a ph.D. with background in engineering and 6 years of experience, to get a decent job even for two years. But until then we will keep getting smart bombs from the USA, and Europe keeps on funding Arafaat's tactical missile program, their ammuntion, TNT and salaries, then by 2009 I could only make very good money by signing up even more to the army. And you call it embargo. Anyways, if you read until here now is about the time to mention I had a *fascinating* 5 hours meeting with Rabih Abou-Khalil. I will now use Karine's tape to record the 3 hours of recorded conversation into MP3s so you could listen in astonishment to a Labanese telling all about the Syrian ruthless regime, the Egyptian stupidity, the American imperialism and much deeper discussions about the origin of western and oriental music and the nature of science and art. The holiest day for the jews begins in about 21 hours, so I hope you'll forgive me by then for all my stupid remarks and insults and whatever. You can always come to the synagogue in Stokholm and finish me off. DON'T CALL MY CELLULAR EVER ANYMORE, it is now sleeping with the fish near the reichstagg since I'm so stupid. Tata, Lior Stokholm |
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מעבר להשמצות (הכל ברוח טובה) נראה לי שתרגיז הרבה אנשים בכך ששיבשת את שם ארצם/עמם. כבר בכותרת יש שגיאה, אבל זו רק ההתחלה: Copenhagn - Copenhagen
Portugeuse - Portuguese Lichtenstein - Liechtenstein Luxemburg - Luxembourg Georgeans - Georgians Chechnia - Chechenya Palestenians - Palestinians bedouines - Bedouins Colmobia - Colomobia Aquador - Equador Madgascar - Madagascar Aurugway - Uruguay Corea - Korea Zimbabowe - Zimbabwe Ethiopea - Ethiopia Carrebean - Caribbean Tivoli - Tuvalo (.tv) Micronezia - Micronesia Baharain - Bahrain Chille - Chile Kazachstann - kazakhstan Tamills - Tamils Galapagus - Galapagos Maiorca - Mallorca Madiera - Madeira meditarrenean - Mediterranean |
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Kindly forgive my ignorance. I thought Colombia is derived from Colombus and made a typo, but now you say his Greek nickname was Colomobus... I wonder what his real name was? Molocho?
And you're right - it's Kazakhstan, or even Khazakstan, because it's named after the Khazakim - a.k.a. the mighty Kozaks. Maiorca - Read the last minute deals wrong, well I looked for Lisbon and failed to find any. Only Germans can call 'last minute station' a servicepoint where you sign up to trips to Mallorca leaving in a month and costing some 500$ instead of 1500$ if you book well in advance... Good luck finding any last minute flights to Europe in their airports... Only foreign companies would offer such connections. I flew with British Airways from Berlin to Munich for 98EUR including everything, for a flight that left an hour after buying the ticket, just because the same plane serviced American passengers continuing to their eversecure homeland on September 11. And it wasn't because of the day - I could get the same flight for 60EUR two days earlier had I been more decisive and willing to report to the airport by 05:15. So now you know how much did it cost me to reach Rabih Abou-Khalil in Munich, and you'll be ever more willing to tell me which MP3 recorder could be used to send Dubi et al the records of the interview. Right? Anyways, if the Greek would be more strict about correct naming, we would still call the fertile delta of the Nila ee-kaftor and not Egypt, the ruins under Tunisia would have been called Karta-Hadata (new city) rather than Karthago (why didn't you correct that?), and the Romans will still call Barcelona after Hanibal's kin, Gadir rather than Cadiz and ee-Shfanim rather than Espania. But the Romans called ruined Yehuda Palestine rather than Pleshet, creating a people out of thin air 2000 years later, so who am I to be judged? Not to mention one Shaul guy, possibly from Tarshish or something, who heard about one Yeshua guy and made him a messhiach. Now we're stuck with a big concrete monument after him in Roma called Holy Shaul Church, which sounds like the perfect name for Mifgash Shaul in Tel Aviv. Who knows, maybe when the Schwarma becomes the flesh of Hesus they will stop mixing lamb with chicken (only with Peaguins and fish, yak) |
חזרה לעמוד הראשי | המאמר המלא |
מערכת האייל הקורא אינה אחראית לתוכן תגובות שנכתבו בידי קוראים | |
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