I’m surrey; I did not mean to hurt your feeling.

I do think that Stalin has something to do with this discussion. He is part of the history of communism.

The west have tried to invade Russian from the day it became socialist, long before Stalin became chairman. After the Russian revolution different imperialist armies try to invade Russia almost immediately. It had nothing to do with Stalin; it has to do with the fact that Russia has provided a real example of a batter society, a hope to the oppressed (beside the point that they lost another state to make money off). Socialist Russia and China have affected diffract revolution and rebellious around the world in the course of their life.

On the other hand, Hitler would never come to power with out the help of Britain, and as I said before no one really cared as long as he was expending towards Russia.

I think that you are wrong to say that that Poland Communist party was executed by Stalin.

Here something new that we can discuss: why did the Maoist reject the “democracy” offer by the king? (while all the other parliament parties accepted it)

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/International/2006/...

If you can give me some of your recourses on the killing of the polish communist members, I will relate to it.

You are not talking about the Katyn “massacre”, right?

Well, was it what you meant or not?

It seem to me from what I read that it was a mistake, and a crime.

I’m still waiting for your rescores about the killing of the polish communist party.

The katin massacre happened (even according to western historians) with a polish officers who were aiding and supporting the Nazi army (not to justify it).

people are usually very confuse when it comes to Stalin or Mao that they mix two or more stories together. I wonder what would have happen if I would say on this website that I have a friend that says that a Zionist delegation went to Israel and was assassinated by the Israeli government or by Sharon who was “controlling” the military”? Why when it comes to communism anyone can say what ever he wants, repeat any rumor, or write any book he wants without ever being question?

Again, what assassination are you talking about? Don’t just repeat rumors and gossip of people, especially people who took Russia beck into the sewage, do the research yourself, try to examine thing in relation to material condition and history. And there are other things that Hroshev said in that speech, did you actually read the speech or a friend of yours just told you about it?
Are you talking about Trotsky who was calling for an arm revolution against Stalin while the Nazis were invading? Or was it Bukaharin who was sabotaging the economy? Or was it the organized kulaks fighting the government by murdering people and burning huge supplies? How about Nazi document indicating that there were spies in the Russian government and a possibility for a coup?

I think that your understanding of “leaders” is very mystical. Do you really think that Stalin could just “hypnotize” the Russian people to do what ever he wanted? Did you know that he actually quit his job at a curtain point and was ordered by the party to come beck? The masses are not just some dumb and passive people who fallow who ever come along.

And just another point about the west and Hitler, the west did not “fear” and “admire” Hitler. The west (and Stalin) understood that there is no difference between Hitler imperialism and the other west imperialist countries. What did Hitler do different then the British Empire? r the French empire? Or the American empire? Imperialism as a system is responsible for more death, genocide, and holocausts than the Nazi could ever wish. Stalin and the Russian masses were the only ones who were willing to fight the Fascists, not the French rolling on their back playing dead, not the British paralyzed and panicked, and defiantly not the Americans waiting until 1944 when it was obvious that the German are losing and that other imperialist are weak enough.

Revolutionary Russia recognize Israel as state. Not only that, Jews were granted an autonomies territory in Russia. If you cant relate to facts or history don’t accuse me of being Anti-Semitism (I knew its going to come up at curtain point) people in your country have the tendency to ignore reality and to accuse any one who disagree with them as anti- Semitism.

So let’s see, after a couple of threads I’m still waiting for:

Your definition of the Jewish “nationality”.

The recourses about the killing of the polish communist party.

Your inability to provide a foul picture and understanding to Stalin, communism, W.W.2, Nepal, and history in general

And this is not an attack against you as a person (or as a Jew….), it’s a discussion on history and the possibly of a better society.

Well, saying that I would justify any killing of Jews by Stalin, just because they were Jews, is to accuse me of being anti-Semite.
I don’t think that I even need to comment about the link accusing Stalin for arresting people just because they were Jewish, or that revolutionary Russia was anti-Semitic (right?).
It seems that when ever anyone on this website gets the wrong ideas about things, it usually is justify by “wikepedia”. maybe instead of debating people over here, I should go directly to the source.

Now that we established that no killing of the polish communist party happened, your friend can join the communist party again.

Comrade, I wish you too a good (and a revolutionary) night. Personally I’m too busy to sleep. I’m trying to hypnotize the masses so I can have my own cult, to send different people to a reeducation camps, bashing in the blood of virgins, and assassinating my friends.

Hogs and kisses.

Meow

Now that we established that no killing of the polish communist party happened

I’m surrey, it seem to me that you again ignored the subject.

I did not try to hurt your masculinity, assuming that I’m a man.

still waiting for my answers

I think that that is a good point, actually. The position in soviet Russia was that homosexuality is just another form of oppression against women. That man who “chose” to have sex with other man are just coping the Greek experiment in which woman were the incubators and a second class citizen and only men can truly love have relationship and understand other men.

This also came from the philosophy that all ideas come from class outlook. And that if man is having sex with another man it has to be a political statement. This was one of Stalin and revolutionary Russia errors. To their defense I can only say that examples of homosexuality in nature were not discovered yet.

So I gauss I wont get my answers from you after all. But let see if you can answer this: how would you define a man and woman?

http://www.bidstrup.com/sodomy.htm

In the approximately 1,000 to 3,000 species whose behavior has been well researched and described in the literature, approximately 450 have been shown to have clear homosexual behaviors

"To their defense I can only say that examples of homosexuality in nature were not discovered yet"

http://www.bidstrup.com/sodomy.htm

In the approximately 1,000 to 3,000 species whose behavior has been well researched and described in the literature, approximately 450 have been shown to have clear homosexual behaviors

I just wanted to recommend people again to use pseudo-names, your government has black lists of people who think critically, and with the new “patriotic law” and the latest authorization of Bush to illegally spy on people (not that they did not do it before) things are gating difficult.

The article that you referred to was written in 2000, the book itself was written in 1999.
I don’t think that before the 1980 anyone knew that animals practice homosexuality.

Part of understanding human behavior comes from researching nature. And part of the old scientific view was that fundamentally humans have sex so they can pas on their genes. So, what does it says about people who “chose” not have sex with woman? But that was exactly the mistake of the communist movement, looking at sexuality as a very rigid thing and not being able to have an open mind about this. But what’s more important is that the communist movement at the time (and I would say even today) did not understood that homosexual compose an oppressed minority as well and can be united towards a revolution. For example the fact that animal don’t change their sex does not mean that transsexual is a reactionary behavior (beside the point that there is no way to define what is a “man” and what is a “woman”). On the contrary, transgender are allies of the proletarian towards a better future because of their oppression. There is more work that needs to be done in the communist movement in uniting gender oppressed people.

I think that when we criticize political movements we also need to pay attention to the time and the ideas that were around than. Everything is a progression of something else, nothing is born perfect, and everything in the universe develops through contradictions and leaps. Capitalism and communism were a developments of old production systems, it took capitalism hundreds of years and bloody revolutions to develop from feudalism, and communism would not be around without capitalism and the need to destroy it. We all do mistakes, as humans and as political movement. The question, however, is what is objectively true and what is the goal. Is it objectively true that capitalism as an economic system cannot survive without exploitation? Is it objectively true that only a different production system can bring an end to all the misery, oppression, and enable human to be truly free? And most importantly, does your “means” correspond to the end?

You are right; we cannot outlaw religion or immigration into occupied Palestine just because animals don’t do it, (we should, however, outlaw forced immigration on the Palestinian).

Religion as Marx put it is “opiate of the people”, its represent the need of people to seek meaning in a meaningless society, a socialization and closeness in a society that is driven by cold economic laws. It’s like a drug that gives a relative high, but fundamentally is never a solution to the real problem. Religion is also a philosophical tool to explain and justify reality, and this why religion movements are usually allied with the right. In a communist society religion will be wither away (like the state and laws) as people gain real meaning in their life, view each other as equal, and are confronted with a scientific thinking.
Most religious people have never read the bible (or read it and ignore everything in it). Beside the point that the bible was proven to be false by archeologist and the evolution theory, it is a document full of genocide, oppression, and pornography. If the bible was true it would mean that God, who probably knews about universal laws, thought that in the bible time it would be appropriate if a man who raps a women should marry her, or that a kid who disobeys his father should be stone to death, or that a woman is part of the property of the husband. That if one wants to conquer a city he can take the women as prizes of war (after killing all the man around). It would be one thing if people will relate to this as an old script just like the Egyptian or the Maya property and civil law, its another thing to uphold it as God giving laws or to justify with it the oppression and genocide against the Palestinian and the right of Jews to take land that is not theirs.

I think people should be allowed to immigrate to different places, as a communist I want to abolish all borders and states. At this time, however, we cannot do without them. The question also needs to be why do people immigrate to Israel? Is it from a racist Zionist ideology, that objectively only serves Amerikkka and imperialism? Does it have anything to do with the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians? Why one by law can have the rights of obtaining land that is not his (by the name of god?) while others who leave their land for a couple of months cannot return?

I’m surrey for writing to much; it’s just that discussion should be part of politics and the current struggle. I don’t want this to become like other debates on this website an intellectual masturbation.

Another way to put it, is that since their no such thing as ideas (or art) in the abstract or above classes, and that all ideas in society correspond to a class out look. If sexuality is mainly for reproduction then that would put homosexuality as a “choice” (idea).

There is no such thing as individual “truth”, there is only objective reality. Well there is obvious b.s. that is not so hard to determine to what class ideology they belong, like one who says “I’m a Zionist and I really believe that the state of Israel is democratic and should be defended from Arabs.” Well, he can really believe that, but objectively Zionism is just another tool in the hand of the imperialist (the same one who support dictators in countries around Israel) and most of the citizens in Israel cant really practice democracy (beside the point that in class society their no such thing as democracy). Or in art, TV sitcoms or movies who portray Arabs or women in degrading ways are representative of a reactionary class outlook. Or music can be defined by the lyrics or the culture that it represents. On the other hand art or ideas that deal with progressive things would be a representative of a proletarian ideology. What I’m trying to get to is that in general there is no such thing as ideas in the abstract or above class ideology.

"To their defense I can only say that examples of homosexuality in nature were not discovered yet"

As you can probably see my English is not very good. I’m surrey for the misunderstanding (I can always try to translate things to Hebrew).

I’m wondering however, do you have any knowledge about the gay/lesbian/transgender struggle in Israel?

I have too much information about “human rights” in Israel. I gauss that it’s always good to knew that as long as you are Jewish your rights will be protected.

My question was with regard to different gay groups that are not delusional about their “freedom” and “democracy”. They are fighting to end the occupation; I think the name of one of the groups is something like “black sheep”. It’s always interested me how people who start to wonder about their own rights (like feminist groups in Israel) end up fighting for everyone’s rights.

I’m too tired right now to go in to whole subject of reeducation camp.

In any case, thanks.

Before I answer your comment, I feel that you should read my comments again. I think that did not understand my writing, and what I meant. Its o.k. if you don’t, no one will kick you out of your house, take your land, and force you to move to refugee camp. No one will starve your family as a collective punishment and bolduse your house in order to maintain security and than kill your daughter or kid and justify it since at the age of six they were already terrorist. No one will arrest you just because you belong to the wrong religion, torture you, torture your family, torture your friends, retrieve fake evidence from you, force you to betray your relative, try you in a military court, and jail you in an inhuman condition. After all, this is not Siberia, or communist Russia, this is the democratic state of Israel.

As I said before you did not understand my comments (nor did you read my other comments). In writing about gay and lesbian groups fighting the occupation I was trying to make the point that although in Israel there are some groups who enjoy some “democratic” rights, they do not let that stop them from fighting for other peoples rights, mainly against the racist occupation of Palestine.

I never compared between Israel and Russia, my comment about Stalin was a respond to people who asked me about Stalin. I don’t think that there a way to compare between the two. Would it make sense to you if I would camper between communist Russia and French under napoleon? How about revolutionary China and America during the civil wars? Or America today and Britain during the 100 year war? The Russian masses were fighting a different mode of production, in a different time in history. Israel unlike Russia is not a third world country trying to gain independent from foreign powers, Israel does not have thousands of peasants dieing from starvation and preventable diesis, did not face invasion by different imperialist army’s, and did not lose supplies by armies of land lord who would rather burn food then sell it to the masses. What’s amazing here, is that Russia over came all of that, outlaw oppression against different minorities, defended her self from imperialist army’s from inside and outside, and managed to achieve a better mortality rate then the one in N.Y. saving hundreds of lives a year.

If you really want to camper Russia to other countries you should camper it to other countries at that time. Imperialist and dominant countries such as, the British Empire where worker work for 16 hours a day and the oppression implicated through organization like the British east India company, French imperialism, or America with the lynch system and the crashing of the economy in the 30’ and the starvation of millions of people as a consequence. Or better yet, to third world countries in that time, like China with the death of thousands of people from starvation and diesis, Algeria under the rule of France, or the Native American or African American under the colonial rule of America. I wrote a whole thread about how we should judge movements with regard to time and place. The choices of the USSR was not between liberal human-rights utopia on the one hand and tsarist era backwardness on the other. People from the West focus too much on issues such as “freedom of expiration” and the right to vote and not enough on causes of death such as food, clothing and basic medical care being lacking. Not only that, what does it mean when people are “allowed” to criticizes their government but can never change their lives to the better or affect in any way the political system? In soviet Russia people were allowed to criticize the government and more than that, their government was actually really working to achieve a better future.

Did Stalin did mistakes, yes. Was it worth it, definitely. I would always support someone who is willing to fight for what is right, against oppression and genocide then someone passively sitting at his home talking about the right to criticism, ignoring reality and real oppression (and fundamentally only trying to protect his own individual previlage). Beside the point that Mao learned from Stalin errors and developed the science of revolution to a whole new level. Russia have achieve for her time things that other third world countries only dreamed of. As I said, you should judge political movements in their time and place in history and the direction that there are going.

Third world countries can never achieve their independent peacefully. And after a revolution classes still exist. Revolution is not a fine dinner party, or a quiet transformation in life. Revolution is an arm insurrection in which one class fights another, and gain control over the economy and life.

In your country for example, after a revolution their still will be thousands of settler and racist people who would not only “criticize” the new people government, but would act to fight for their kind of reactionary future. And on the one hand you don’t want to just send all of them to Siberia. On the other hand you not going to allow them to organize or have any political rights in that regard.

Beside not really understanding what really happened in communist Russia, or the complexities of making a revolution. It also seems odd to me that you as someone who benefits from imperialism and genocide criticize Stalin. One could argue that your “rights” as a “Jew” would never exist without the oppression of the Palestinian. I would like to hear one (1) example of how the Palestinian lives (not the privilege Jewish minority) are better then the lives of people in revolutionary Russia.

If it just a mantra why are you so bothered by it? Is it because something about this mantra is true?

My duty as communist is to educate people and to direct them towards a revolution. I’m not here to participate in the usual intellectual masturbation. While I’m wasting my time writing this lines kids are dieing in third would countries (and yes in Palestine too) as a direct consequence of people like you who don’t want to be bothered with the reality of exploitation and genocide.

Do you think that if this website existence in Germany during w.w.2 it would be appropriate for me to debate people about poems or movies? Or about the differences between a republic and a monarchy? While you’re reading these lines kids in Africa South America and Asia are dieing from starvation and preventable diesis while people like you are benefiting from that holocaust. If you have no idea or interest in ending that holocaust, get the f**k out of the way.

Stop repeating lies and gossip and behaving like a “good Germen”, stop playing the victim and try to brake away from the party-line brain washing type of thinking. Your country was always supported by different imperialists’ powers. Palestine would never be settled by Jewish immigrants without the aid of Britain, and never win its wars of inhalation without the aid of the American money and weapon. And if you have anything to say about communist Russia why don’t you say it? If Stalin and communism are so bad it would not be so hard for you prove it.

Its funny that while you talk about my mantra, you stop to say that Palestinian can go to Musk, so did Jews in concentration camps, what is your point exactly? Your rhetoric about religion in Russia disserves no answer.

And yes, you choosing to run away and hide from this discussing, provides more then just a proof to your inability to “prove” your claim about Stalin and Israel. It shows your individualistic personality and disregard to human lives.

1. ignore everything that was said
2. change the subject
3. say the last word

1. ignore everything that was said
2. change the subject
3. say the last word

1. ignore everything that was said
2. change the subject
3. say the last word

I wish you too a pleasant life in the democratic state of Israel undisturbed by stupid things like genocide and oppression.

My comment was about acts committed by America before and after W.W.2 who were much worse than the holocaust and genocide committed by the Nazis.

http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/interventio...

There was not. There is a difference between the British Empire American imperialism. (I should have chosen a different word).

What happen? I thought that you are not going to “talk to me”? I gauss its hurt when you are confronted for who you are.

Your site is a joke, not only it site as historical evidence u.s. official, in some historian data the blame for 20 millions dieing in w.w.2 is part of Stalin “terror”. Not only that sitting as the death from famine the site never mention the kulaks that were burning supplies, or the poverty that Russia was before and after the revolution, it was all Stalin fault. Your site (although dealing with the question) never really answer the question if Stalin killed so many people then how come 20 million of his people died in w.w.2? but whets really amazing about this site is that it blames Lenin for soldier dieing during the Russian civil war. Meaning that according to this site the dictator rule of the tsar was fine, millions of people dieing form starvation and diesis under the tsar is never mention, but when the Russian masses decide to fight the corrupt rule of the tsar suddenly all death is blamed on Lenin, (who was probably hypnotizing the Russians to fight the tsar although they were having a very good life).

I’m happy to see that you can also goggle web-sites showing the military invasion carry out by imperialist power against Russia. You so ridicules you probably type the first thing that came up, with out ever reading it.

Is this is how you are going to debate me, googeling “Stalin killed millions of people” or “communism is bad”? do you even knew what is the “black book of communism” that your site keeps referring to? Why don’t you go directly to the c.i.a web site, I’m sure they have enough information about Stalin and Mao. With that level of intelligence maybe we should really not debate.

But what should I expect of someone who calls Asian American the same name that they were called when they were slave laboring in the railroads of America, never surviving to be paid? Are you really against communism or you just have no respect to Asian people like Mao? Is this why you are so bothered by me talking about human rights? Stop hiding your agenda everyone can read what a racist you are.

O, and talking about gulags and concentration camps, don’t let this http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasite/pages/ShArtPE.jhtml?... stop you from writing to this web site trying to gain your dignity, for you they probably just some “sand niggers” or what ever other racist name you like to call them, and beside I knew you don’t like to be bothered.

This is an extremely racist comment. Would this website tolerate people calling Jews “kike’s” or black being called “niger’s”? This is so discussing and offensive.

Only in Vietnam more then three million people died. Imperialism kills also in indirect ways. http://www.imperialismkills.org/stats
Amazing with what I need to debate with, people who can’t research how many people died in different wars and intervention.

The fact that a movie says something doesn’t make it o.k. There are a lot of people that I knew who would find it very offensive even so it was in a movie, the “passion of the Christ “ shows Jews in a very offensive and degrading ways if it was funny would it be o.k.? but you knew that you just don’t care.

Latin America is the richest continent with resources, and Africa has enough food and natural resource to sustain it self. The poverty and death is direct consequence of imperialist countries that enforce this oppression. Your orientalist ideology is truly racist, the “primitive” and the “advance”? But I gauss this is the best that you can expect out of someone who is so ignorance to other people’s problems or the economic relationship in the world.

But you are not really interest in that ether; I’m wasting my time on this web. I wish all the people on this website a happy future in your dream land.